Tax Lawyers College?

Was that an old file photo of Gerry Spence I saw on ABC News last night? Was the famed litigator really refusing a chance to comment on national television? What's going on?

Well, it's tax time, and Peter Jennings is in the midst of a scathing and scornful series on legal tax dodges. Mr. Spence found himself on the national hot seat.

Why?

Spence's Trial Lawyers College sits on 200 plus acres of land in DuBois, Wyoming. The land is stunning in beauty. It was once part of much larger ranch Spence owned.

He created a public trust for the land on which college sits and enjoys the tax advantage of having done so. He also enjoys complete control over the property, presiding over a hand-picked board over which he serves as the first among equals, a polite medieval way of saying what Gerry wants, Gerry gets.

The question for ABC News was whether this is the sort of charitable entity contemplated by the law. ABC concluded no needy people benefit. Who does, then? Well, for starters, Mr. Spence. Tax savings for the litigator? Four million dollars.

I spent many weeks on the ranch in the late 1990s and enjoyed almost every minute. But I hardly count myself as among the destitute and forlorn in need of a charitable handout.

Bad press for the Trial Lawyers College. Perhaps it can turn this negative into a positive. Create a new curriculum. Call it the Tax Lawyers College and offer programs on high-rent tax avoidance. There's nothing wrong with preaching what you practice.

Comments

[Maren Chaloupka]

And yet, Spence placed that land in trust years ago - - over a decade ago, at least. Only now, in 2005, has the IRS questioned the validity of the trust. It might be a coincidence that Sen. Grassley sicced the IRS on Spence's land immediately after Spence spoke convincingly to the National Press Club about how tort reform is a hoax; then again, it might not be.

[Huge Nuge]

Perhaps Mr. Pattis’ ambivalence to the Trial Lawyer’s College is because there are certain nude photos of Norm while in Wyoming. Norm, why don’t you write about your nightly visits to the Milk Barn - you know the building located next to the sheep barn?

[Mike]

Maren, I feel you on this one. The feds are probably turning on the heat to teach a lesson -- If you piss us off, we will ruin you.

On the other hand, Spence is worth gazillions of dollars. I'm not sure he's someone who needs tax-exempt status.

[Norm Pattis]

Alas, there are semi-nude photos: I recall one in which my bare derrier was painted in the colors of a rainbow and displayed for all to see. As I recall it, I stuck that fanny pretty close to Spence's face the night I emceed a lampoon, in which I played, you guessed it, Gerry Spence.

I don't recall nightly visits to the Milk Barn, however.

[Huge Nuge]

Mike:

What difference does it make what Spence is worth? Can you name ONE person who was not wealthy who placed thousands of acres of pristine land in trust for the benefit of others. The result of such a generous transfer is a tax break. I'm all for it. I prefer people who have the financial ability to create such trusts do so, rather than sell the land to developers. I don't think condos and McDonalds would look very nice in the Wind River Valley.

Your blog page has spent time bashing Spence. Why don’t you write about some of Spence’s achievements - Ruby Ridge, Silkwood, Marcos, Ms. Wyoming/Penthouse, Ed Cantrell, etc.? Spence has contributed greatly to the areas of criminal defense and civil rights. Areas I believe your blog focuses on.

Nuge

[Norm Pattis]

Huge Nuge:
Just how many weeks a year do you spend at Trial Lawyers' College-related events?
I cannot think of a contribution Mr. Spence has made to civil rights law. As for the old cases you recite, your point? This page is devoted to law as its is being practiced. We generally don't do antiquarian pieces.

[Mike]

Mr. Nugent: Have I or Norm suggested that Spence was not a top trial lawyer - even one of the top five or 10 of the century? If so, please provide citations.

My issue with Spence is this -- Over fourteen years ago he stopped doing trials. But at every TLC/Gerry Love Fest, Spence boasts, "No one will try a case against me! I am invincible!" Well, Norm and I have a handfull of cases that are going to trial. What sayeth Gerry?

Granted, Spence is old lion, and so he's entitled to boast. We would be cruel to not forgive him. But we would be imbeciles to believe him!

So here's my official take on Gerry Spence - he was one of America's finest lawyers, and we should remember him as such. But italicize was. And what's more -- In a year or two, I will apply to Camp Kool Aid. And in my application, I'll attach these remarks.

I think that dispoes of your red herring.

If you read Norm's post again, and then read my comment, Norm's post will make more sense. In property law, it's silly to say that you have given property to someone when you still maintain dominion or control over it. The fundamental aspect of property ownership is the right to exclude. Spence can, and does, exclude people. Seems like he still has an property interest in Thunderhead Ranch to me.

That's great that Spence donated the land. Now, he should get off of it. If he wants to stay on it, or if he wants to keep it as a monument to himself, then he can pay real property taxes.

What's so controversial about that?

[Huge Nuge]

<<...Norm and I have a handfull of cases that are going to trial.>>>

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, get off the coattails of Norm. Sounds like you have been drinking the new Kool Aid served from the sticks of Connecticut. Stand on your own legal career.

Please provide me with a SINGLE citation of ANY case you have ever tried - civil or criminal, state or federal court.

It is easy to counterpunch, much more difficult to go into the arena and get a group of ordinary citizens to give you what your client desires.

So tell me Mike, have you looked into the eyes of ordinary citizens while your client hopes and prays you are persuasive?

Just answer the question, enough of your Mini-Me Norm posts.

Nuge

[Mike]

Sigh. Mr. Nugent cannot respond to substantive arguments (wasn't this a post about property law and non-profits?). Thus, he calls names.

[Norm Pattis]

Huge Nuge:

Mike has yet to pass the bar, and yet you are reading him. I am sure he appreociates the free rental of space in your head. Perhaps a spot right there next to Gerry?

I still love you

[Huge Nuge]

Mikey,

I'll take your response to mean ZERO.

Name calling? Property rights? Read the previous posts. You were the one throwing mud. I simply asked for some of your credentials. Your attempt not to answer is, in fact, an answer in and of itself.

Take a look at Black's Law Dictionary, 5th ed., under ownership. You will see how inaccurate your previous post is. You buckled under the desire to copy Norm in bashing Spence and overreached - a sure sign of an inexperienced trial lawyer.

I guess that begs the question: Are you a trial lawyer or just some guy with a law degree who has all day in his office to read decisions (cases tried by other lawyers) and type on this blog page?

[Huge Nuge]

Mike:

If what Norm says is true, then I strongly encourage you to get in a courtroom.

You are one sharp cookie. You seem to have a great deal of energy and you are witty. People need someone like you to fight for them in court.

All the best to you Mike.

Nuge

[Mike]

Mr. Nugent, I don't generally play credential whoring unless it serves some tactical purpose. Merely one-upping a person doesn't serve any purpose -- In my view, it's destructive. Don't we have enough emotional drains without us contributing? So please don't take offense that my response was, well, non-responsive.

I'm no mini-Norm (unless he's trading in his NLG creds for a Federalist Society membership), though I've learned a lot from him and hope some day we get to work together.

I'm not sure what Norm told you, but thanks. And please stick around.

[Norm Pattis]

I told him that based on my assessment of your work, I suspect you will be one of the nation's top trial lawyers within a decade.

[Borland]

All that back and forth on Spence and his Thunderhead Ranch badly misses the point: You all rant on tax avoidance.
Well, go to an estate and trust tax Seminar in Miami, and you can learn about the Wyoming Trust marketed by Wyo banks(etc--others) in the exhibitor halls, at the high end hotel on Miami Beach, etc. It can teach you how to set up a trust in Wyo--and then if in a high tax state, use Wyo for a tax avoidance gimmick. No wonder there are so many Trust, and 2nd trophy Homes in Teton/ Jackson, of some really super rich, very high end rich(Teton the richest per capita county in USA)
But getting back to Spence and has been:
Spence now spends most of his time in Santa Barbara, in the exclusieve gated and guarded community(with Ocean View, and lesser time in Wyo).
Ergo, and avoids the 12 % state income tax in CA, all by touting his Cowyboy/ Elks Skin persona, and you buy the Chief Sitting Bull P R marketing of the high plain imagine.
The guy is a tax avoidance guru, truly brilliant.
But, all the credit doesn't go to him--it goes to the big Corporations who structure that gimmick, the ones he rants about, but then follows suit( buckaroos)
Nice to see that when "love lips", AKA John --fast buck Edwards,had a swarmy problem with Missy Hunter(video-istic organastic delights, popping out the love Child, she got shipped off to where:
You got it, that same ritzy Santa Barbara rich enclave in Santa Barbara ritz-ville, that Spence now finds as his magnificent abode(spot)(google it up, truly striking--renowned, and famed.)
You truly under-estimate the brilliance of Spence on milking the tax laws of America.
And, all the Natives(Americans) Spence represented--No Native American has the name Marcos, and to Spence an Indian is just some guy who stays in a bar until his last dollar runs out(his own book points that out, his words, all you Spence Fan clubbers).
Oh, by the way, Spence has lost a case, and the first thing he did--- over 40 yera after the fact was attack the lawyer who won the case--all in his 1996 Book, still miffed about losing & that lawyer being Will Smith who kicked Spence's fanny. Did Will Smith get a bit fat book contract(St Martins Press) to write on how Spence pumps cases he lost as never losing.( turning things backwards,reversed, upside down )
Apparently not--none of you ever heard of Will Smith.
But, then he was the true "Country" hard working lawyer, who just wins cases, and never writes books.
Wow, have some of you got caugth up in the Spence mythology games.., like how big is your Elks dong compared to the 12 point buck in the Valley.
By the way: I am not for the tricky Wyoming trust--but just pointing out how Wyoming is the real tax avoidance haven, kind of like Bavaria by the Snake. So, ironic, some of you miss the big picture splitting hairs on the 200 acres in the down wind County, while ignoring the big apple deals on the structured Wyo trusts, for the 2nd trophy Teton Club.
Hey, just being candid, but lets keep it a big secret, from the
Senator from Iowa, and his ethanol farmer PACS. 10/4 on changes are coming in soak it to the ones who don't pay enough taxes, in the
land of big WIN WIN, bookie deals

[Bernie]

If you want to learn how to use Teton(Ritzy VILLE), as a tax avoidance haven, via a WYO trust, linked to a high end 2nd trophy home, you might want to drop in to:

Reminder!

Register for the 43rd Annual Heckerling Institute on Estate Planning before the Holidays!

Register online today!

(If you have already registered, please disregard this message.)

We hope you will join us for the 43rd Annual Heckerling Institute on Estate Planning scheduled from January 12-16, 2009 at the Orlando World Center Marriott Resort & Convention Center.

The Institute offers a full week of educational programming that provides the information you need to plan effectively in today’s changing financial and legal markets, including the latest on planning for financial assets, grantor trusts, private equity hedge funds, charitable giving, FLPs, private trust companies and variable life insurance. This year’s Institute also features a new comprehensive series of programs on planning for retirement benefits. As the largest gathering of estate planning professionals in the country, the Institute offers a unique opportunity to exchange ideas, network and visit our exhibit hall showcasing the latest in technology, products and services.

For further information on the Heckerling Institute, including programming, travel discounts, hotel accommodations, continuing education and guest programs, visit our website at www.law.miami.edu/heckerling.

Wishing you a prosperous and healthy New Year!(After the big CRASH of 2008)

I seriously doubt you will pick that up on the Thunderhead Ranch in remote hinterlands at Spence Trial lectures, Get a seat this year, it is in the Miami area.

Look, I am not advocating, this stuff, but is it a reality it exists, and is there some states that have no income taxes, and so situs, of truts, etc...
Federalism, must mean the relationship between states and the FEDS.
Well, California has a $ 20 billion hole in its accounts to now fail to balance the budget, and your subject is tax/ College and the American Ways of structured vechicles.
However, real estate devaluations are putting some curve balls in the mix, but I guess some of you don't care to get into that can of worms

[Mortimer]

I found the below on the WEB(WWW), wow, are some pushing Wyoming as some tax avoidance haven, the place to put into play a real GIMMICK. By, the way, I am not endorsing, just putting up, as a reason why the USA Federal budget deficits are so large,
Here is the big KOCH:

Wyoming -A Tax Friendly State

By: Stephen Koch / Art Hazen Real Estate LLC

1. No state tax on personal or corporate income.

2. Dynasty trusts: In Wyoming, you can shield your real estate from federal estate taxes for up to 1,000 years through a dynasty trust. You can establish a trust in Wyoming for the benefit of your family or other beneficiaries. You can transfer your real estate into a limited liability company or family partnership and then put that into the ‘dynasty trust,’ which can continue for a thousand years. As a result, multiple generations can make use of and enjoy the property, without having to pay estate taxes or worse, having to sell the property in order to pay the taxes. A key point to remember: The trust must be administered in Wyoming.

3. No inheritance tax: Wyoming can collect a very limited estate tax, which is tied to the federal estate tax credit.

4. No state gift tax: Property owners in Wyoming can ‘gift’ real estate to their heirs without paying a state gift tax.

5. No tax on out-of-state retirement income: Many residents call Jackson Hole their second home. They have retirement income that comes from other states where they may be a resident. Wyoming doesn’t tax that retirement income that’s earned outside of Wyoming.

6. Low property taxes: Wyoming has very low property taxes compared to other states. The taxes paid are base on the assessed value of the property. For Teton County, the rate is 1.2 percent of a property’s assessed value. The rate for the city of Jackson is 8/10 of 1 percent.

7. No excise taxes: when you fill up your car’s gas tank or buy a bag of groceries in Wyoming you won’t pay state taxes.

8. No tax on mineral ownership: many states charge owners a tax on their mineral ownership; Wyoming does not.

9. No intangible taxes: Wyoming does not tax financial assets such as stocks and bonds.

10. No tax on the sale of real estate.

If you have any questions about the strong Jackson Hole, WY real estate market, please contact me, Stephen Koch at 307.699.0202 or stephen@stephenkoch.com. Bookmark this page and share with everyone!

[Morgan]

ABC T. V. blasted Spence over his situation on Thunderhead Ranch, in the beautiful Wind River foothills, an area that is not lacking in value, or of no value. It is loaded with value(so many values).
And, this was part of some so called investigation of Senator Grassley on claimed tax abuses, as ABC was used for P R for the Senator, most curiously.
So, Spence donated or conveyed the 220 acre Thunderhead Ranch section(Wyoming) to some supporting organization, non-profit entity. Would Senator Grassley rather see a McDonald Hambuger joint on the land, or have some other use preference, maybe taken over by a GOP redevelopment off-book corporation( on shipping jobs overseas)
What is wrong with what Spence did, does the law allow that--what he did, i. e. legal ? If not, why not ?
So why is Spence spot lighted, and put in the glare of deer in the head ligts T. V--ABC, and put up here as some whipping boy of Chucky Grassley ? And, when Grassley, most curiously, was asleep on subprime massive corruption of big corporations.( i. e melt down city all over America. Now you--Mr and Mrs taxpayers pay through the nose: big time.
Also, what is wrong with valuing the Ranch at $ 18,000 per acre, at subject times ?
Don't a lot of places in the West value land at over $ 25,000 per acre.
Who was the Senate aid(way back East) to Grassley, who targeted Spence and why, didn't you all ask about that ? Or, did the ABC piece so prejudice you, you lost having an open mind, being so very prejudiced by the ABC piece, so slicky done, with no balance, and hardly any fairness, and more of a diversion.

Did Grassley look into any seminars, attended by a Judge who was sponsored by Exxon(oil Coporation(who funds a lot of non-profits(IN DC), after the judge cut Exxon's award by billions, strange that was not noted by Senator Grassley--using his Finance Committee.
Spence is getting old, maybe he wants his Trial College( with its values--situs and all) to continue after he is gone, some important values, some forgot to note, he will not live forever, and so maybe Grassley is concerned that he won't be able to have GOP favors run on things, so he attacked Spence, due to some political agenda, which seems rather apparent, if any looked at the matters, or even have way cared to genuinely do so.
How many non-profits are there associated with the corporate defense bar, why was that not brought out by Senator Grassley ?
Is it linked to PAC money swirling around the GOP too, some Party thing ?
Yes, Peter Jennings---of ABC-- is gone, he died from smoking, but maybe Grassley thinks the tobbaco PAC money is more important, than being straight with the American public. And, the Grassley Chief Committee guy --where is he now, with some Group, helping large corporations on how to work it to avoid taxes. i. e the A-Group.
Any want to get into that--now that it is subprime time in America ?
Gerry is old, his trial college will it continue--after he is gone, and then still ABC(or some other mouth piece) will still be talking about control of justice for its T. V--big apple-- connected to PAC money, and Parties.
But, who controls the justice system, Senator Grassley sits on the Judiciary Committee too, any want to look what has gone on there, or
are some of you afraid too, fearing some unfavorable tax treatments will come Thundering down from raw D. C power wielded by Chucky--KING-- Grassley.
What about the farm hand outs to Chucky Grassley and the farm dole, ABC must have forgoten to get into Grassley's tax angles on that, too, being more of a P R arm of Grassley's Senate Committee, kind of smacks of McCarthism, don't it ? Or, even worst ! So, ABC don't think a charity and justice can go hand and hand.
Yes, when CBS Brass killed the program on the Tobbaco company lies, as people were bing harmed, and the trillions in costs were shifted to the Government, then isn't ABC( Prime Time) in high cotton, with its playng off of propaganda of PAC endowned Senators like Grassley, who have put America in a status, near barnkruptcy. But, then, why should you care, & do none of you share the values Spence is seeking to preserve in America ? Some values transcend the instant in time, but just not to Chuck Grassley, who devalues real justice in America, devalues so much that used to be precious in America, because Chuck Grassley never stood up for a second for some citizen in a court, as Grassley tilts procedures to favor corporations, then lies about that to the American public, manipulation P R with his raw corrupt power.
Mr Pattis can side with Grassley, if he opts to, that misses the point, however.

[Brogan]

http://finance.senate.gov/hearings/testimony/2005test/imtest060805.pdf

Above is a reference to the Hearings of the Senate, with Chairman, Grassley, held on June 8, 2005. The Hearing had none who noted Spence, in any of-rectod Senate testimony, or did he(Gerry S) appear in Washington D C., to enighten Congress on the ins-outs of matters.
How ABC T. V. so went off on its crusade to attack Spence is curious, it aired its attack program on March 25, 2008, to spice up matters before any June 2005 Hearings.
As to what "goes to the needy", some might question if all the hot air over T V networks is some exercise going to the "needy", when ABC charges vast millions on its 30 second ads, using "public" air waves. Because Attorney Norm Pattis, from Conn, does not count himsef among, the "destitute and forlorn", that is really beside the point, and totally irrelevant. Maybe some of the people(or person) who he represented in legal malpractice actions qualify for "forlorn" status. If people are paying $ 1,000's to go to the High Mt Wyo Trial Drama event, that weeds out the penny-less, from the get go.
Norman got the mugs(or could have), got the publicity, he was a chosen one, to say he was at the MOUNT, and among the masters of the P. I. Bar.
People who float in the charity, non-profit world are money-big buck class, you will not find some guy who is an acholic passed out in some urban street corner, maybe a Vet, with no job, & back from a Bush war front liner, who is suffering from PTS as trafficking in the arcane word of 561 exchanges, Form 990's, and the like, but Norm Pattis, and his bank account and his million buck jury verdicts(he displays in graphic ads) does indeed place him in the non-needy status in some ways, but he did note the prestigious factor so, can all the needy factors be ruled out, in the matters -- totally ?

[Max]

Well, first of all the ABC piece was by Jack Tapper that should tell you something. Apparently, he doesn't know that googles is filled with items of people donating lands to colleges, universities, and learning institutions.
Spence must have been into teaching what he knows. So, he started an entity to bring that about, and the land is kind of like some campus.
Just because the campus was not in Washington D C, and the Washington Legal Foundation, that must have deeply troubled ABC man, Tapper. Now, there is even plenty of pieces on lands donated to learning institutions in Conn where Norman Pattis is from.
He too must have jumped all over that. It takes land, often with a learning insitution.
And, land donated to some other colleges in Wyoming, there is plenty on that. But, Tapper being an ABC hack must like only institutions who are for lawyers for big corporations like ABC.
So, Spence is wealthy, and donated land, for teaching about justice, seeking to educate on that.
Maybe Tapper would feel better if only people could be educated about justice by Exxon donations, given the way it spreads its money around to entities who hold itself out to teach judges on matters while cases are pending in federal courts.
Wait--that happened in the Exxon Valdez case, does Tapper want to look into that, or is he too busy being a shrill for large corporations, maybe some who have federal indictments for alleged criminal acts, or other fraudulent schemes.
Sure Tapper, and Pattis, the paragons of nobility, and higher learning at the hands of Yale, and other Conn high rollers.
Wait, Tapper never got a law degree or went to a law school, that must make him a "forlorn" expert on what must be taught in places far from the beltway, and its Bail-outs, and subprime swamps.
Would Tapper have felt better if Spence had some religious classes up at his trial college, maybe some courses on Cannon Law ?
And, the wealty slant in the Tapper piece, you won't find many people donating to places like Yale and Harvard, and the other corporate factores now will you, since Tapper never got into that.
But, fact of the matter is every College is always looking for money, constantly, it is well known, just maybe Tapper is not familar with all the really rich people on the East coast who dump loads into the Washington Legal Foundation, which is for what some call injustice---not justice, but then Tapper and ABC must have some monopoly on that, given their FCC license, and the way they slant so much.

[Max]

Additionally, on the subject land, donations, and etc:
There is no big urban area next to the Spence Trail lawyer College, in very remote Wyoming.
But, perhaps, the Tapper ABC fellow(back East) must have missed situations like that covered in the St Petersburg Paper, the April 2008 editon, which notes( google up the rest)

Quote:
Donating land to a college can become a windfall
By Michael Van Sickler, Times Staff Writer
In print: Sunday, April 20, 2008

LAKELAND(FL) — A corporate gift of enough land for a new $200-million University of South Florida campus in Lakeland has been lauded for its public benefits.

But the company donating the land, the Williams Acquisition Holding Co., stands to reap some benefits of its own.

That's because the subsidiary of an Oklahoma-based natural gas pipeline conglomerate owns 5 square miles next to the future campus, enough for a small town. The company hopes the campus, its faculty and students will trigger the need for thousands of homes and millions of square feet of stores and offices.

"The new USF campus will produce sizable economic impact," a company consultant predicted in a 2004 letter. "USF's economic activity will ripple through the economy." (google up the rest.... and google land donation colleges)

[Carly]

You all going into: Colleges, non-profit, taxes, land, etc:
Well, you ought to put this in your pipe:
Why didn't ABC and Tapper and Senator, Head up his arse, Chuck Grassley cover---look into in a major way-- Bernie Madoff, the guy who ran the $ 50 billion ponzi scheme and wipped out many Jewish non-profits, and a good chunk of the money behind Yeshevia University. Spence's College is on the up and up, but no-- Yeshevia is near Norm's place, the epicenter of NON-profit implosions from Bernie, the swindler.
Word around NYC is Chuck Schumer( Senator Chucky) got stung by Bernie, too

Here is what Time Magazine noted on Dec 12, 2008

"Bernard Madoff, the former Nasdaq chairman who was charged on Thursday with massive fraud, was long considered to be quirky. Employees at the offices of his eponymously named brokerage firm in midtown Manhattan's Lipstick Building had to follow strict rules for what they kept on their desk. Family photos were allowed but only if they were displayed in a simple black frame.

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Now it looks like Madoff, who went by Bernie, may also have been a crook, and quite possibly one of the largest Wall Street has even seen. According to the U.S. Attorney's office in the southern district of New York, Madoff admitted to defrauding clients for up to $50 billion in a massive Ponzi scheme that was committed over a number of years. (See the top 10 scandals of 2008.)

[Brody]

While on the subject of money, and charity,
that master swindler, Bernie Madoff, evaporated a large part of the Jewish charities-non profits on the East coast, and some are shutting down, or are near doing so, in the wake of the $ 50 billion swindle.
Bernie Madoff's brother, Peter, was a Senior Director, compliance officer, for the Madoff Fund, and Peter's daughter was the compliance attorney for the FUND.
What did they seek to comply with... Seems just about nothing.
Where was Senator Grassley on that, seems he was asleep, and one of the big losers in the swindle was the U S Senator from New Jersey, Senator Frank L.......a buddy of Senator Grassley deep in the Senate
Finance games---- as the new game was: crooks gone wild, while the SEC slept.
Madoff gave a lot of money to the Democractic party politicans.
Where was Jake Tapper looking into the massive swindle machine, with ABC.
AWOL--that is where he was.
Hey, Norm---Norm Pattis, you really have a den of crooks back in the NJ-NY area, while you were spouting off on some po-Dunk ranch out in Fremont County Wyoming.
Ya, where is that old photo file of ABC's Jake Tapper, snoozing, while ABC etc ignores such brazen billion dolla rip offs, until the money is totally zeroed out. Amazing.
Even the Justice Project was a victim, and may shut down, the JEFT Foundation, who supported the "Innocence Project" that exonerated people using DNA, who were wrongfully convicted, is now hurt so badly, it has little to continue its work.

[MG Hemming]

There is no mention of the fact that Mr. Spence's Trial Lawyer's College serves a public benefit. The bnefit is training small time lawyers and public defenders who represent the interests of consumers and those who cannot afford a $1000 per hour lawyer to represent them. There is nothing devious or kniving about the use of the land for the college. Where can lawyers receive decent training for trial after law school that is not at the expense of their clients because of inexperience?